Linda Sowell

Aaron [00:00:00] Okay. Today is June 21st, 2022. I am Aaron Fountain with the Cleveland Restoration Society and I am interview with Linda Sowell. Is that correct?

Linda [00:00:09] Linda Jackson Sowell.

Aaron [00:00:12] Oh, Linda Jackson Sowell.

Linda [00:00:13] Like Powell.

Aaron [00:00:16] We are in Shaker Heights, Ohio, at her home. So all right. I’m glad you appreciated to do this, and I’ll start off with the first question. It’s something I like to ask about everybody, can you tell me about yourself? When and where were you born, raised your parents and the neighborhood you grew up in?

Linda [00:00:33] I was born in Atlanta, Georgia, at Grady Hospital, which makes me one of the Grady babies. If you go there, when you tell people where you were from and you say you’re a Grady baby that gives you status after all these years. My parents moved to Cleveland for my father to attend law school and to follow in the footsteps of the pastor of our church. Dr. McKinney, Reverend. Dr. McKinney, who was the pastor of the Antioch Baptist Church, who was a Morehouse alum as he was. We always lived in the Glenville neighborhood, and my father became the first African American in the Glenville area, in that ward to serve as city councilor where he served for 13 years. I left Cleveland for a period of time to go to school and work in Boston, in Cambridge, Massachusetts as a student at Harvard College followed by a period of years seeking my master’s in public health, which is now the Chan School of Public Health in Boston. And with after a period of time and after becoming married to my college roommate, we returned to Cleveland where he then attended Cleveland Marshall Law at Cleveland State University, where my father had attended. And I came to help with my mother who was chronically ill. And that is what brought us back to Cleveland. We moved to Shaker Heights, as my parents had after living in Glenville for many years. And that is where we raised our three sons who are graduates of Shaker Heights High School and who attended college as well with my youngest being a legacy graduate of Morehouse College in Atlanta.

Aaron [00:03:31] What year did your family arrived to Cleveland?

Linda [00:03:40] My mother didn’t come at first. She stayed in Atlanta, and that’s why I was born there. And my guess is that she was not interested in coming because she from a very close knit family. But she did come eventually. And I believe our family bought the first house in 1953, but she worked a little bit before that for the Navy department in the late forties, and then went back and forth between Cleveland [indecipherable] when my father was in law school.

Aaron [00:04:31] You do come from very interesting background, so can you talk a little bit more about your family like your mother’s or father’s background?

Linda [00:04:39] My mother was born in the state of Georgia. She was an only child. She was the actually the only child of my Grandmother And Her brother and sister. She was the only child of the three. They moved to Atlanta in, My guess, in the 1930s I would imagine. I’m not certain of that. But my Great aunt took over the role of grandmother and godmother at the early death of my grandmother at age 37. She died the same year my mother graduated from college. She actually worked for the family who owned Coca-Cola, the Woodly family. As a (illegible) working for various members of the family. And so we got a chance to see the different side of life By visiting those families Who own stuffed-toy company, Coca Cola, physicians and what have you. One of the families even had a Flock of Peacocks. My great uncle, her brother, my great uncle was the first Person hired by the Marriott Company to Open its first hotel in Atlanta. And he worked there for a good portion of his career and became the employee of the corporation twice. And when he retired, Bill Marriott came to his house In A stretch limousine to pick him up. He also became an Inductee into the Atlanta Hospitality hall of Fame before he died. My father was from a family of 15 children. He was the youngest. He was the only one who graduated from high school. Jones High School was one of only maybe three or four high schools in the state of Florida where black students could go. And he went. And it was in Jones High School when it became the high school that the issue degrees, high school degrees. Only nine years before he graduated. So he was one of the first contras of students to receive a high school diploma from Jones High School in Orlando, Florida. And that high school is still open and graduating students today. And one thing I forgot to say is my mother graduated from the same high school as Dr. Martin Luther King. And she was there attending at the same time. Most of my father’s siblings were, some of them signing with an X. Pick oranges in the fields. And there were a few who broke out. He and his second cousin, Andrew became the first African American to be issued admitting privileges for Tampa General Hospital. My father and my cousin Avu were looked upon as role models for the rest of the family, who then went on to also go to college and to get engineering degrees and other degrees. They have done quite well in their lives. My mother got a teaching degree. In the days coming to Cleveland it was difficult for black women to get teaching degrees. She took a job at the Navy Department for a period of time before returning to Atlanta. And then when we got out of elementary school, she did the executive teaching for the rest of her career and used her teaching skills combined with my father’s interests in wanted to make certain what would be the pristine [indecipherable] culture and what have you. Well, she used her teaching skills. What else? My father was elected to the Cleveland City Council when I was in kindergarten and he was there my entire K-12 education and became a judge in the Eighth District Court of Appeals. He was the first African-American to become on that Court of Appeals in 1971, where he stayed for the rest of his career.

Aaron [00:10:58] How was it like growing up in Glenville in the sixties.

Linda [00:11:04] It was a good place to grow up. It was a very close knit community. There was still the outmigration of Caucasians was still taking place. It was very much a Jewish community at that time. And matter of fact, the person who would replace the city council was also a Jewish individual. We had only a few, we had a short streak. And there were still three white families, largely older women, who lived on the street, who eventually left or passed away. And some of whom we were very close with, including our next door neighbor, who died in 1960 at the age of 93, and for whom my father was the executor of her statement. And every time I passed through my dining room, I think of her because her dining room table graces my dining room today. And we had penny candy stores. We had movie theaters. And we had a Crusty’s and a Woolworths right in the same intersection. We had drugstores, we had furniture stores. We had just about everything you would want. There was a trolley that went straight from St. Clair all the way to downtown. And busses. And so it was easy access to multiple, there were no food deserts. We had A&P, we had Krogers, we had Fisher, [illegible] Costa, all within the same intersection. Our schools were within walking distance although some students today would say that was too far. But we walked, and that’s probably why all of us were skinny and many of them today are not. We did not have McDonald’s until much later on. The post office was on the corner of our street. We played kickball in the lot. When we closed down in the evening, there was a church on the corner to which I attended. Church the Sunday school, after I went to my church, I went to that church. And there were other. Churches like Morningstar that started out in Glenville, and I went to their summer programs. I went to Glenville High School, and went to the Homes Elementary, which was only a half of a lot from [illegible] to Empire Junior High. We had the Greenville Library within walking distance, and all of those things were wonderful for me because I was a devoted midget intellectual, and I love reading. Book clubs wanted you to read him books in the summer. So I read 25. We had morning talks in elementary school. They wanted you to have, we have one month to pick somebody too important or to look into. We were suppose to have three visual aids. I had so many in my (illegible) to drive me to school. I was in love with the children of my parents’ friends, junior rug rats we were called. We had to do a monthly one pager on the person that the head of the club picked out and we read with them and whose was the best part of (illegible), which is considered a big deal. I look back at the little girls because we were 6, 8 who were in that group. One of them ended up at Harvard with me. One of them ended up at Northwestern. Their junior year abroad, the American University of Lebanon, married a prince from the Sudan, lived in the Middle East for a number of years. One was the daughter of the parents who were both pharmacists. And one owned his own gas station. It was not the Glenville community where many people would associate at that time because you had everybody was there. And everybody was accepted, regardless of the station in life of their parents, whether they were in a factory or whether they were a minister or whether they were a lawyer. But one of the guys said, he could come on our street, and he could see a different life that he knew about just from being in his family alone. And that was Glenville. The people who were ministers at all the churches, the churches were there. They lived there. And we all benefited from the joint knowledge that we were able to get from living in the community with everyone. And it was the same in Atlanta. We weren’t waiting for integration. We had everything we needed in our own community. We had highly educated people. We had people in every field of endeavor. So, that’s the way we felt about our community and the people we grew up with.

Aaron [00:18:15] Glenville being one at the heart of Cleveland’s black communities. Were you involved in any civil rights protests like the 64 students strike?

Linda [00:18:23] No. For one, I would be like sixth, seventh grade and I didn’t know so much about that. But I believed in equal justice under the law. I remember one of my first things I remember doing is when I was four. I would call my friends up four-year-old friends and tell them that we had to fight double standards of housing. Because I was listening to what my parents were saying. And what they felt was wrong. My father was an early proponent of gun control. The voting rights. All of those things I would share with the children that I knew. And I may not have participated in those things in my time in Cleveland, but I certainly did at my time at Harvard. We took over. I was an officer in Harvard Afro, which was a political organization on campus. I supported the takeovers of University Hall, Massachusetts Hall because we were against the University’s policies of investments in South Africa and before people were aware of those things. We fought to have the African-American studies department be fully equal with other departments on the university campus. And as a result, it opened the first year that I attended. I worked in that office with the chair and with faculty to sustain the department.

Aaron [00:20:59] That’s pretty cool. It’s something we can talk about a little later. Even in living in Glenville, which is adjacent to Hough, do you have any memories of the riots that broke out in ’66 in Hough even though you were in Glenville?

Linda [00:21:11] I know that was happening. It was of concern but needless to say having known about the Hough riots. When the riots came to our way, it was of great concern. When I was getting ready to start (illegible), which was at the intersection of 105th and Superior, was where I started. Its spread. I was at the hairdresser and my father came and got me because he knew we were going to have to hunker down in our home and didn’t know how it was going to turn out. But I saw the fires. I heard the gunshots. I could look out of my bedroom window and see it all. And to see the smoldering remains of what had been a wonderful and vibrant neighborhood become less so.

Aaron [00:22:27] Do you know what the preparations for King’s visit was? What preparations were in store for his visit?

Linda [00:22:37] I know there were a lot of dignitaries there. He had visited other churches in the neighborhood. One of the larger ones Cory Methodist. And so a lot of those people were there. During the time, I do know that the way our school was designed, the stage was right in between, one side of it face the auditorium, the other side faced the gymnasium. And what they did is all of the high school students were on the bleachers in the gymnasium and they invited younger children to come and hear Dr. King. And they sat in the auditorium. And it was taped. The story of the tape is very interesting because for decades it was basically lost. And a friend of our family, Ms. Livingstone worked at Glenville High, and she was charged with being one of the people to get rid of all this stuff that was just kind of piled up in storage. And she was the one who came across this tape that is now replayed every third week of April for everyone to hear and remember. It was first, it was an audiotape. But it has now been embedded in PowerPoint, where there are pictures of everything that took place that day. Does that answer for you?

Aaron [00:24:48] It does actually. Did you see King before he came to Glenville High School?

Linda [00:24:55] Yes.

Aaron [00:24:56] What were those instances?

Linda [00:24:58] I saw him at my church. I believe he came in 1963. I tried to find the poster. But I failed. As I said, the pastor of our church is a fellow Morehouse Alum. And so that was one of the reasons that he came to our church. Our church has always been a community activist. And so it fit right in a way. When my father and Dr. King were both acolytes of Dr. Benjamin [Mays?], who is considered to be the architect of the modern civil rights movement. And so with the (illegible) some with pictures of us, my brother and myself shaking his hand. (Illegible). And here’s the other thing. My Mother knew Coretta Scott King and her address at her college, Antioch College in Ohio Springs. Mean that when they were college students. When I wrote Spelman Glee Club came to the town we always hosted choir members including Carolyn Jackson the sister of Maynard Jackson. For whom I gladly gave up my bedroom for.

Aaron [00:27:22] I’m going to go back to high school, but I’m kind of curious. So the church. How was the church leadership like? How actively involved they were in the community.

Linda [00:27:30] You’re talking about Antioch?

Aaron [00:27:32] Antioch, yes.

Linda [00:27:34] Well, for one when the soldiers came home from the war. You probably are quite aware of that. Even after all of their losses and all their bravery in World War II, people like my Uncle John, my father was a member of the Army, but he did not leave the United States during his tours. They find it difficult to get loans to buy homes. And even though you have people talking about the greatest generation and what have you. If you pay close attention, you’ll know that those members of the greatest generation never seem to quite include us. So what our church did, they created the first church based coordinator in the city. It was true that many individuals, church leaders, and others were able to buy their first (illegible) after the war. As the media often does, they look to certain individuals to get the opinion of the black community or pastors where often among those who they would seek council from. Including Rev. McKinney, who’s a long-time pastor in the church from the 1930s and he died in 1963 I believe. Followed by (illegible) Willard Smith, who was also a Morehouse alum, who stayed only a short time, followed by Rev. [Louis Branch?], who was there for probably 20 years. Who was actually a graduate of Yale. But they weighed in on the issues of the day. They made certain that it was clear to the people the congregation that there’s certain things that we should expect as individuals who were in the community who were expected to vote and to know that their vote would matter. Basically also a mutual support society for each other. Culturally, economically, and educational. And that tradition has continued. You may have heard or maybe not such a fairly new here. The long time ministry of Rev. Marvin A. (illegible) who then went on to become, after being here for more than 20 years, went on to be the head of the Rochester Crozer Seminary. One of the places where Martin Luther King was a student before he went out to Boston University. He was one of those (illegible) people as well. He’s written probably more than 15 books and remains active as a pastor emeritus. To make it clear at least from different ways of looking at the issues at the time this.

Aaron [00:32:00] I do want to jump back to Glenville High School. What are your memories when Dr. King visited and what was your role that day?

Linda [00:32:06] I sat in the bleachers, and soaked it all in. I remember watching the March on Washington in 1963 I believe. On my mother’s little TV in her bedroom. And so to be able to see him speak in such close proximity, because I was very close to the stage, was an amazing thing. He encouraged us. He made us believe for sure that we had a role to play, that we were, just like my grandmother told my father and my father tell us, you are somebody. He reinforced that and we felt that we could go on and make a big contribution to the world. And we took him seriously. I know I did. And that is why even though there were some at my school who we weren’t so sure I should apply to fancy schools. I didn’t listen. And I applied to the law school I always expected to go to in the only city I expected to live in. In Atlanta, to my mother’s alumna mater at Spelman College, to which I got a four year full scholarship. Brown University, University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard. Those are the four schools I applied to. Because they were schools that I admired, I researched, and I felt that I had the academic credentials to be competitive to go to. And so I did and in my class there were members who want to Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, and many other well-respected, Duke, many well-respected institutions. And I can’t help but imagine that even though they’ve got the preparation and the encouragement from home, it didn’t hurt that we were among the few kids who got to hear the message directly from our esteemed Dr. Martin Luther King.

Aaron [00:35:07] So what was the student body reaction? What do you think the impact of the visit on school was?

Linda [00:35:16] We want to go out and save the world. And we tried. We left Cleveland, many of them never to return because they found better opportunities elsewhere. And I should have gone to but I didn’t because I felt the need to support my mother and my father because my mother had a horrific case of rheumatoid arthritis that resulted in nine joint replacement surgeries in 20 years. So I had to be here for her and to support my father so that we could do it as a family.

Aaron [00:36:15] I’m kind of curious, the ones that you said left, what do they end up doing? Do you have any knowledge of that?

Linda [00:36:25] Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, pastors, Wall Street. One person who became a well-known journalist for USA Today. CPAs. Some of them came back, but not all. Some of them were on Wall Street and then they came back. And many were drawn, I think, based on wanted to be close to their families. But in my case, my only family was my parents. All the rest of our family was in Georgia and Florida. And I love them and miss them. And I wanted to be closer, so we just travel a lot.

Aaron [00:37:26] This is some it came up to me. By 1967, King was not as popular as he used to be, especially among young people who saw him as too old.

Linda [00:37:37] No, that wasn’t it. Just think, he was only 37 when he died. Is LeBron [James] 37 yet? What happened was that there became a shift from civil rights and nonviolence to black power. That’s what happened. That is one of the reasons why people said, we’re getting murdered, we’re getting this and that. Why aren’t we fighting back? That was the reason. In addition, other parts of the community were very concerned because he was shifting his approach to poor people’s campaigns. And just think, think about where he was when he was murdered. He was supporting garbage workers in Memphis who were underpaid and mistreated. And they were wearing signs saying that I am somebody. And who better to support people to know that they were, who agreed that they were somebody than Dr. Martin Luther King.

Aaron [00:39:18] In his speech, which I have listened to, he does emphasize mobilizing students to get their parents to vote for Carl Stokes. So even though you’re not old enough to vote, did you try to assist the campaign in any way? Or if not, what are your memories of Stokes’ historic campaign?

Linda [00:39:39] My family is very politically active. My father was on city council. So he took the lead on those kinds of issues. We knew Carl Stokes. We knew Louis Stokes. And I’m happy to say that, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, do you know the date that Carl Stokes died?

Aaron [00:40:16] I know 96. I forget the exact date.

Linda [00:40:17] He died on the anniversary of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, April 4. My mother died at a relatively young age. Despite all the things that she went through, she maintained a decent quality of life. She was never in a wheelchair. So was never in a walker, she dressed up every day. We looked fly. After five years, he found another woman to love. And on April 4th, 1996, we want to Helena, Arkansas to propose to that woman. And she said yes. And two weeks later, we went to the courthouse. He remained active through the life of the court. Because he was thinking about getting married, he actually gotten new clothes which I encouraged, whoo hoo, new clothes. You need that. And I bought shirts and ties and everything else. I think I more exciting than he was. And then he took one of those suits, new suit out what he bought and the shirt and ties that I bought. And he went to the courthouse because they wanted to take pictures of all the retired judges. And so he went. And he went to the parking garage and the guy said, ‘Judge, what are you doing? And he said, ‘I’m here for a photoshoot.’ And when he laughed and he said, ‘I guess they want to take our pictures before we die.’ And then he said park in the usual space. So he did. And he got out of the car. He put his judicial robe over his arm. He walked to the elevator to go up to the court. Pressed the button up. And it collapsed. And it just so happened that one of the judges in the domestic relations court saw him and called (illegible) did CPR until they arrived. And they called us and they told me they had taken him to St. Vincent Charity. That was one of many organizations that he served on boards and what have you. I actually work with St. Vincent for ten years and I went there, rushed. I rushed there. And so I knew all the places to check front desk to see what room he was in. Wasn’t there. The meeting is not here. He had not been admitted to the emergency room. He said there’s nobody by that name here. So then they call the court. They call or asked her, which is interesting. And then we began calling hospitals to find where they took him. And they had taken him to Lutheran. This is the same man who, while I was (illegible) had a facility designed, had designs the EMS facility at St. Vincent. They took my father to another hospital and did not inform anybody where they were taking him. And they said, because I went to the head of the EMS later. So when I had parked at the way end of Vincent, thinking I was going to be there all day, and when they told me where was that. Ran as fast as I could to our car. And then tried to find (illegible) because they didn’t have G.P.S. then. We found him. And I said ‘is he here?’ And they said yes. (illegible). And being a person to not just shrug my shoulders and say. I wanted to find out why. Because I know as a health care person, as a public health person who worked in several hospital systems, I know that isn’t anyway that supposed to have been. I’m telling you this because the civil rights movement that was inspired by Dr. King is now over. The fights have to be re-won with every new generation. I talk to the people in the garage and they said nobody had knew EMS. Nobody told the marshals or anything where they were taking him. I eventually want to talk to the head of EMS because I knew him. I work with him to design. And he said, nobody knew who he was, so they could take him wherever they wanted. There were 50 people there. Everybody from the court was watching as they tried to revive him. And then they called City Hall, which is next door, generally next door. And all of them came over. So there were hundreds of people watching. And hoping. Then they tried to take him up the elevator. The stretcher was too big for the elevator. So then they took him up the steps in the (illegible) and we tried to get out of the building. The closest door to them. The vehicle was locked and nobody knew where the key was. All this piled on. And he died and they said nobody knew who was so it didn’t matter. It didn’t matter who he was. Then he said, ‘well, what will it take for you to not talk about this?’ I said, ‘all I want is to talk to your staff. So that they know that when they’re in a situation like this, that their hearts are not hardened. That they know that it matters how they treat people, whether they be known or unknown, whether they’re homeless or judges. I would just like the opportunity to share the perspective of one of those people or found out like I found out in one of your staff meetings. Well, he said, ‘that can be arranged.’ How many years has it been? I never heard a word from him again. So I believe in equal justice under the law. I believe in the works and the approach of Dr. Martin Luther King. I believe in our Lord and Savior, just like he did. And I believe that even though the road is hard, we must still seek to find those people who will work together with us who believe in the constitution, who believe in the preamble. We, the people of the United States. I still read those things and I pass those things off to my children, and my six grandchildren. And hope that one day the dreams of what I have, that I want, and that I felt hat I have the audacity to go to Harvard University. Yet, my parents had the audacity to go to college, my father had the audacity to take his family’s only coat. And my great uncle served as the bellman and Marriot for all those years. And my great aunt served the families the aristocracy of this country that we must have a marker at Glenville High School to commemorate that moment and hope that somebody would say, what does that mean? And for somebody like me to know, even though we are among the last individuals who have firsthand knowledge of what happened in those days. Everybody else just knows about the mattress sale. And what they may have heard from mothers and grandmothers.

Aaron [00:51:44] What was a student body reaction to King’s assassination in 68?

Linda [00:51:50] You know how high school kids are, loud. Loud, boisterous, wiggly, saying, when can we leave? The school was large at that time. You could hear a pin drop. We just sat there sad. Seeing my high school or any other high school kids got quiet in my entire life. But I know what they were feeling because I felt it because I was there.

Aaron [00:52:37] You say you’re politically active at Harvard. I’m kind of curious about the continuity of growing up in an activist environment and being an activist at Harvard, especially the university not having a very large black student population.

Linda [00:52:56] My class doubled the presence of African-American students on Harvard campus. It didn’t matter to us were a small percentage. Not at all. We sat together and we worked together because we really weren’t accepted. They weren’t accustomed. I would say, they weren’t accustomed to the presence of so many African-American students on campus. Just to give you an idea of the numbers. My class had 30 black women. There were 70 black men. The previous class had 20 black men and 10 black women. And the other two classes had 4 black women and about 10 black men, each. And so that was a small number compared to the number on campus. They just weren’t. We weren’t accepted in study groups. But that doesn’t mean that everybody was mean. I had a white roommate who I adored and we still stay in touch today, and she became an attorney, and an active member of the Urban League. I think it is because she believed in equal justice under the law. She had me as a person who she could communicate with and hear different perspectives. And what’s interesting is, in recent years, I now have relationships with those people in my class. And which I accept because I was never mad at them. I felt that I could get, I was fine with the wonderful education I had. The people in our class had the same credentials as they had. We were not the prototype affirmative action babies. We were very highly skilled, many of them had gone to prep schools in the Northeast, high test scores, GPAs, you name it, and skills in every area that you could imagine. And so I was happy in my little community. And there were many people later who were not black like us who realize what a rare treat that was to know so many people so intimately cross class at your university. Because oftentimes numbers of a class are so large, you don’t even get to know all of them. Not to mention everybody in so many people cross class. Matter of fact, every Sunday there is a happy hour led by my class members on Zoom and I attended. We talk about whatever is of interest. And it is a fascinating gathering. And I am one of the few black members of my class who attend. Even though I told you the numbers of people in my class who are African American, I went to my 45th reunion a few years ago. There were five of us. We typically don’t attend those gatherings. But I do. They don’t because our experiences were very difficult. I went to one of the black (illegible) cross class reunions, where the president of the University came Drew Faust. And I’m sitting next to one of our friends who is actually our son’s Godfather, who used to be a senior team of Wal-Mart. And she welcomed us. And he turned to me and said, ‘Wow. I guess I can come back now.’ I interview students for Harvard every single year, for the last 30 years. Usually from Shaker, Beachwood, University School HB, but largely from Shaker. They have quite a few, and I make certain they have all ethnicities and all backgrounds. And a lot of my students are, that I interview are (illegible) and the university invites me to be Marshall at the professional convocation. But my heart is with the black community. We founded our own institutions where we were, didn’t feel comfortable with the ones that were there. We’ve had black casts. We had dance, our dance troupe. We had our own choir (illegible) political organization. Have you heard of Peter Larson Jones? He was a county commissioner for a number of years. He was there at the time. One of his first plays he wrote we presented on the stage at Harvard, and I am the national president of Kuma (illegible) private college of (illegible). We’re close to 2,000 strong. And when I was there, we sang it was required, it was a fellowship. And it said more than 50 years old. And today it is one of the most beloved institutions on Harvard’s campus. And to our surprise, based on the situation, we were there. It is now multiracial, multi-religious. But it still holds the core of African American music, music of the African diaspora, which includes music from the African continent, and (illegible), and in the United States.

Aaron [01:01:07] My last question is can you talk about your life after Harvard, which career wise, family.

Linda [01:01:15] Well, my career has been diverse. I started out at the Massachusetts [Racing?] Commission. Nursing homes in the state of Massachusetts. I worked at (illegible) Medical Center in their medical labs doing research studies. I came to Cleveland, I worked for Krazier Community Health Clinic. Work for 10 years at the Sisters of Charity Hospital System, it’s a charity hospital. And then where I started doing grant proposals for the federal government. Read applications and what have you. From there I went to Cleveland State University where I served in a variety of positions including strategic planning. Going back to St. Vincent, facility design, which I’m sure you appreciate. We remodeled from nursing units to the building and built the building that connects to the hospital by the bridge. The St. Vincent building. I was the director of the first wellness center, Corporate Hospital Wellness Center in the city. Then I went to Cleveland State, where I was the director of corporate and foundation relations, which is largely health and human service related for a decade, just like I had served for a decade at St. Vincent. From there, I served as the executive director of Cleveland (illegible), my role there was transfer education program. And since 1998, I’ve also done consulting related to philanthropy, health care, health and human services, and I also served as the person who did all of the finance stuff for the Antioch Development Corporation. And I’ve done things for organizations outside of the city of Cleveland. And now I spend a lot of my time doing grant reviews for city, state and federal agencies.

Aaron [01:04:13] It’s all my questions. I appreciate the time.